rap and that: September 2009

My first proper post reagrds the Issue of Hip Hop in mainland China. As a resident of the UK this is a topic that I have had minimal exposure to. China is a vast country; home to a myriad of different languages and cultures, a country which is experiencing rapid growth and constant change. To gain an insight into the standing of Hip Hop in the country in question I contacted an artist known as 'XIV'.

'XIV' (aka Jonathan Johnstone / lǎo.zhèng) arrived in Beijing, China from the USA in 1999 to pursue further education and quickly became involved in the Chinese Hip Hop scene. 'XIV' went on to form one of China's most prolific crews 'Yin Ts'ang' alongside MC Webber.

Yin Ts'ang became the first (non-commercial) Rap group in China to have a top ten hit with their song 'In Beijing'. This song really caught my attention when I heard it and it seems it did the same to the Chinese audience upon its release.

Yin Ts'ang rose to the attention of the Chinese audience with thier 2003 single ' In Beijing'.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank XIV and Yin Ts'ang for agreeing to do this interview and for providing such an interesting insight into Hip Hop in mainland China. Here it is! :

OK, first and foremost, who are Yin Ts'ang and how did you come to be?

Yin Ts’ang originally consisted of MC Webber(PRC), Sbazzo(CAN), Dirty Heff(USA) and myself: XIV(USA) and was formed in 2000. Webber and Heff left the group in 2004 to pursue other goals. Yin Ts’ang has only ever had one goal: to make dope hip-hop using Mandarin Chinese.

What would you say has been the highlight of your (group /solo) careers in Chinese Hip Hop?

A few of the highlights that come to mind off the top: having the first “un-commercial” hip-hop song in the Chinese top ten charts; writing theme songs for the primetime tv series “Dazzled; being featured performers on the 3rd annual International Kung Fu competition at Wu-Tang Mountain; Winning best group at the 1st annual Chinese hip-hop awards; and just watching the grassroots hip-hop scene grow from literally no-one to hundreds of new artists in 10 years time; its been a wild ride.

Yin Ts'ang perform live at the 2008 Kung Fu Festival at Wu-Tang Mountain, China.

'Yin Ts’ang has only ever had one goal; to make dope hip-hop using Mandarin Chinese'

Your group was bought to my attention through your song 'in beijing'; could you tell us a little bit about the song (i.e. the lyrical content etc), I understand that it was very succesful song at the time, what factors do you think were the key to the songs success?

“In Beijing” kinda surprised us all with how well it was received by the local audience. Its just basically a really simple song about the places you might end up at in Beijing. I think its success was its commercial applications, the fact that foreigners and locals were talking about the city they lived in kinda showed a glimpse into the future. Back then Beijing wasn’t near as ‘globalized’ as it is today, maybe that song made people realize that times were changing. Maybe the Chinese audience felt pretty amazed that a foreigner would take the time to should out Beijing like that... I dunno, but we still making money off that song today.

As a country which is so culturally and linguistically dynamic China has the potential to birth many different varieties of Hip Hop. In what ways does hip hop vary in China? ( province to province / city to city)

Honestly there is nest to no support for local hip-hop here in China. I have heard from so many record execs and local industry insiders that “rap music should be performed by black people from the west” or that “the Chinese language isn’t suitable to write raps” or that “local hip-hop just isn’t very high-quality when compared with songs from the west”, so the music over here just hasn’t really been given proper soil to grow in. The potential for some amazing styles is definitely there but no-one can manage to persist long enough to reap the first harvest. Right now everyone still records at home over downloaded beats and either tries to imitate gangsta artists from the west or just shouts swear words without care about the rhymes.. I think its still too early for definitive styles to evolve.

'The potential for some amazing styles is definitely there but no-one can manage to persist long enough to reap the first harvest'

Is there much interaction between Cantonese speaking Hip Hop communities and their Mandarin counterparts?

I mean we all know each other and when we’re together its all good but most everyone is busy with their own grind and the languages are so far apart that there isn’t much room for cross overs (especially when no one is making money). Basically Mandarin and Cantonese is like French and German, worlds apart.

Can you think of a particular city or area which is home to its own stylistic approach to Hip Hop in China?

If you are insinuating something like the Dirty South of China there really aren’t any well defined stylistic boundaries like that yet. You have to understand that Chinese hip-hop is only like 10 years old and most of those 10 years have been under the influence of what I like to call the ‘american pop machine’ which means that the scene was never really a chance to develop its own identity. Most rappers in China are still working towards discovering how to make the words work correctly with music. I hope to see the day where Chinese hip-hop can have an identity like Reggaeton where they develop a style that is recognized worldwide. I mean there are Chinese people everywhere and they’ve got the biggest population on earth... it should be self-evident.

Do you know of any Hip Hop being made by Chinese citizens in one of the countries many minority languages?

I got a bunch of peoples in XinJiang, which is China’s westernmost province and they are doing it big in their own language mainly because they are really unified as a people. In the mainland most every rapper I know who grew up speaking a dialect at home is gonna drop one or two tracks in their dialect just cuz you get a lot of respect from the locals for doing it that way. The problem is that there are so many dialects that if you are trying to rap in one of the lesser tongues then you just limit your audience to your hometown. I cannot see the day where there is a non-Mandarin mainstream hit song, the gubberment just isn’t gonna let that happen, they are trying to unify the nation under one language, so much so that they are systematically erasing the smaller dialects from useage. Aside from a couple mixtapes in Cantonese and Shanghainese and a lot of music in Uhiger and Mongolian, I haven’t heard anything else completely in a dialect coming from the mainland.

As a well informed source on the Chinese Hip Hop Scene, who would you reccomend to look out for?

It really depends on what you’re looking for. In all honesty most every decent rapper that I know is pretty disheartened, either by being f**ked by a label or a company, or ‘hated’ into retirement, or lazy, or just plain disillusioned. Especially with the whole internet download thing.... I foresee that Chinese hip-hop is gonna have to die before local heads realize what they lost. In short, I can’t say look out for anyone cuz I don’t know of anyone else seriously working on material right now. Look out for me...

What projects are you working on currently?

I just finished a mixtape with this crazy dope producer from Azerbaijan called Dojo Shaolin. My boy Young Kin and I put together a compilation EP for our new label Yin Entertainment, featuring us the artists we are putting our money on, and me and Sbazzo are just getting to work on the 3rd Yin Ts’ang studio album. Plus I’m always doing as many collabos as I can, since I am still experimenting with flows and styles, I make it a point to try to jump on just about everything.

I understand you are involved in promoting regular hip hop events in Beijing (?), could you talk us through past nights you have promoted and tell us a bit about the impact they have had upon the local / National Chinese Hip Hop scene.

Recently we’ve done Mobb Deep(Havoc and Noyd), Skyzoo, and DJ Shortkut. Basically it’s like this, these shows aren’t really helping the local scene, they are making us capital to help the local scene. Of course you can pack out a club to see an artist but only like 5% of the local kids there can even understand what they are talking about so what is that really doing for the scene. It’s not like these artists are coming over here and holding workshops or trying to collabo with local artists (aside from Saigon who was all about helping the locals when he came thru, big ups) or even sitting down trying to understand whassup with local rappers, nahmeen? We still try and get a local act to open the set and hopefully start to make the locals realize that they got dope MC’s right here in their city. But at the same time I feel like it makes local rappers even more stressed cuz the audience is always comparing the them with the western MC’s, it’s a tough act to follow (or precede). The foreign DJ’s aren’t doing much to help either, they aren’t taking back Chinese hip-hop to give to their asian friends or playing asian hip-hop in the clubs back home. Right now everyone is just so consumed with making money that the whole idea of a hip-hop ‘community’ that looks out for one another and helps each other grow is pretty much dead and gone.

As a foreigner making Hip Hop in China, how welcoming was the local scene upon your arrival? How do you think the scene has changed since youve been in China?

The local scene didn’t exist when I came to China in ’99, aside from a couple foreign DJ’s playing hip-hop nights in tucked away clubs. Now all the big clubs are playing Western hip-hop and acts like Kanye West and Common can play to sell out stadium crowds. What does that mean though... the locals have accepted foreign music (as they always have and always will) but the local scene hasn’t really gone anywhere. There are definitely a lot more kids out there trying to grab a mic but there are still no opportunities for local acts... Local pop stars still want an english verse in their newest song and local clubs don’t let their DJ’s play Chinese Hip-Hop. There is still a long way to go.

'Right now everyone is just so consumed with making money that the whole idea of a hip-hop community that looks out for one another and helps each other grow is pretty much dead and gone'

Unreleased album artwork intended for an early Yin Ts'ang release.

How prominent is mixtape culture in China? have Chinese MC's / DJ's embraced the mixtape format?

Not prominent, there are probably more mixtapes put out this month in the USA than there are total mixtapes in China after 10 years. There are a handful of MC’s who have embraced the mixtape format and have made some dope products but the whole market has pretty much been pulverized by the internet and the whole download thing. Kids are just like ‘why would I spend all that time making a mixtape when I am not gonna get anything from it?” They gotta record it themselves, mix it themselves, do the artwork themselves, then go print it or post it online and then what.... some people listen and that shit is tumbleweed. Local DJ’s don’t wanna mess with Chinese hip-hop cuz they are afraid of the audience, and 9 times out of 10 the audience thinks that local hip-hop is cheap, childish and ‘farmer’. Plus the stores are scared to put unofficial music that hasn’t passed through the ‘Cultural Bureau’ onto the shelves, so you can’t really push product yourself. More or less people here still do what they’re told. They listen to what the radio plays, they watch whatever the TV airs and they wear what the magazines advertise, all of which are controlled by the powers that be.

Has the Hip Hop scene experienced mainstream recogniton in China?

There is a difference between the ‘hip-hop’ that comes directly from the minds of the kids on the Chinese streets and Chinese commercial ‘hip-pop’ which is usually a choreographed dance troupe doing super moves coupled with sing-song raps written by a team of 40y.o.+ industry flops who weren’t “sexy” enough to get their own career off the ground and now write “hits” under contract by Universal or BMG for millions of dollars while the artist acts only as a heartbreak figurehead robot for 16 y.o. girls. The first kind hasn’t achieved any mainstream recognition, the second kind is all over the airwaves. Turn on any radio station in China and you will hear exactly what I am talking about... What’s even more unfortunate is that the superstars who make millions off hip-pop don’t even extend a hand to help the talented street MC’s, so the problem is self propagating. I mean pop culture is fine and I totally understand and appreciate what it takes to create pop music but over here they have made the division so great that there is no middle ground. You’re either rich and superfamous or you are employed by the rich and superfamous or you are doing shows for $20 a night in a bullshit karaoke bar. There is no middle class.

Is there much of an underground hip hop movement in China? What seperates those who have acheived mainstream succsess from those that are doing Hip Hop at a more grass roots level?

It’s all underground now, because no MC from the streets has came up and achieved mainstream success. No one in the Chinese hip-hop community has made more than just enough money to keep themselves alive and making music at best. I don’t consider any of the supposed hip-hop(pop) artists here in China involved in the scene in any fashion, they don’t care about the local hip-hop scene and I personally feel that they are scared of the artists who write their own music and make their own beats cuz it means that their illusion is about to fall apart, nahmeen? Wayne, 50 and Jay-Z are hip-pop artists too but they give back to the community to keep things exciting, they know that they got their game right and they want to see new kids come up, over here it’s like the exact opposite.

XIV's 2006 single '50 Questions'.

Where do you see (or where would you like to see) Chinese Hip Hop in 5 years time? Do you consider the scene to be in its infancy or do you consider it to be at the same sort of stage as other global hip hop markets? (i.e. uk hip hop is often said to be '10 years behind' whats being made in the states in terms of style , attitude etc, is this sort of observation relevant in the context of Chinese Hip Hop?)

Man, this is always the hardest question and the answer is “I DON’T KNOW”. There are so many variables going on here that anything could happen. I mean personally, I have been telling myself “this year we’re gonna blow, no doubt!” for like five years in a row but nothing ever happens. We get like one big gig a year and then we try to piggyback that shit and use all our marketing tools and friends to keep the ball rolling but shit always fizzles... We just don’t have the capital or the ‘relations’ to keep bribing the right people to continue promoting our material. There is one thing outsiders gotta understand about China, the culture here is all about hate. They hate themselves, they hate the west, they hate when people come up, they hate that they can’t do better, this is the underlying social current in Chinese society. There is even a common saying about it “Laugh at those with nothing, hate those with anything” And this just keeps everyone at a very low level, both creatively and spiritually. I know so many kids who come out with a couple hot songs and drop it cuz they get hated on so much. If one MC starts making some cash then the other MC’s start spreading rumors and tryin to get him off his pedestal not cuz they are better MC’s or wanna be in his shoes, just cuz they don’t wanna see him getting his and they don’t wanna hafta work harder, they don’t wanna put in extra work to make new tracks or work on new flows. Now everyone reading this is probably thinking “that is the way it is everywhere”, but its not, because here, in China, there isn’t much internal critical thinking going on in people’s domes, heads are so used to getting fed information that they’ll listen to whoever talks the best game and has the most to back it up, whether that be cash, or stories, or women, or whatever. Chinese Hip-Hop is like NYC in the early 80’s without the love or unity or mutual respect. So yeah, it’s in its infancy but it’s also got some awful parents... Honestly I don’t see any change in the next 5 years cuz you’d have to change the mentality of a cultural sub-group and I don’t think that’s gonna happen. Where I would like to see things go is a totally different direction. I would like to see one or more artists from the streets, who write their own rhymes and have put in the work, see some real commercial success. I would like to see those artists then go on TV or radio and confidently say that they listen to and support local hip-hop music. I would like to see them tell the people that there is a lot of good rappers that need room to grow and develop, and convince them that they should believe that they can make a mark on the world with their own culture instead of being a bunch of followers doing what they are told. I would like to see a Chinese music label like Death Row or Rockafella that can supply the local pop machine with an alternative to ‘songs that all have “love” in the title’. I would like to see the Chinese version of Reggaeton hit the world scene and leave a mark. But you don’t always get what you want, you feel me?

'Chinese Hip-Hop is like NYC in the early 80’s without the love or unity or mutual respect. So yeah, it’s in its infancy but it’s also got some awful parents...'

Who are you feeling (and why if possible) at the moment outside of Chinese Hip Hop? Do you listen to much Hip Hop from other countries?

I usually have high hopes and get let down almost every time. Western mainstream hip-hop seems pretty much manipulated by big business and continuously promotes a message that is eating the listeners up from the inside. Underground artists feel like they have to fit some mould or have something to prove and end up rapping in some dictionary fashion that only proves that they spend a lot of time on making their rhymes seem intelligent. Every song has got to have crazy punchlines at the end of every bar about how good the MC is in comparison to everyone else in the universe. Sometimes I feel American hip-hop really is dead and being an MC I usually don’t wanna listen to hip-hop that I can’t understand cuz the lyrics are for me what carry the song. I listen to everything from Jay-Z to Joel Ortiz to Aesop Rock, Lil Wayne to Papoose to Canibus. Basically I try to listen to everything that comes out hoping that one day someone will reignite the furnace. I was excited to hear Eminiem’s new album, he always pushes the package lyrically but at the same time, with all that power in his hands and with millions of people listening, he chooses the topics of child molestation, drug abuse and mass murder. What does that say about the world...nahmeen? Aside from hip-hop I listen to world music, a lot of piano jazz, anything that helps me to find new flows and ways to break shit down, I still like a melody.

What is it about Hip Hop that you think has captivated the minds of many young people in China?

I don’t wanna sound like a tyrant or an imperialist or a communist or whatever but the longer I am here the more I feel like the American Media machine has captivated the minds of the young people in China, not Hip-Hop. It just so happens that right now, the American Media machine is pushing hip-hop as the hot thing. The big super companies are so powerful and so well versed in mind manipulation and ‘crowd control’ that they can force whatever they want onto the minds of the youth around the world. Here in China it’s even easier, cuz they’ve got no faith to begin with. Dazzle kids with flashy cars and women throwing money around the interior of your private jet while sipping on champagne and you pretty much have captivated the minds of the neo-commie children, money rules the minds of the new generation of Chinese. Actually it’s really genius if you really analyze how hip-hop has been used to change the world... meditate on that shit for a while, seriously!

Thanks so much for doing this interview. are there any shout outs you wanna give? What websites should our readers check out to stay up to date with your music and Chinese Hip Hop in general?

Check us out at www.yinent.com or google us: Yin Ts’ang or 隐藏. You can find our blogs and all that on myspace and if you really interested in Chinese Hip-Hop go do that research for yourself because I probably don’t know what the fuck i’m talking about. Shouts to my team, Sbazzo, Young Kin, Lone, M2, Dojo Shaolin, Snow. Also shouts to the real grinders in this piece: Brassface, Young Cee, Lil Ray, FK Moses, Cheffy & all them kids at Dragon Tongue who got f**ked, Dragon Lee, IN3, Webber, Raph and everyone else who lives hip-hop instead of wears it on their T-shirt.
Respect...XIV

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http://www.myspace.com/yintsangxiv
http://www.youtube.com/foenixfortean
http://www.soundclick.com/yintsang010
http://www.linkedin.com/in/yintsang
http://www.douban.com/artist/yintsang/
http://yigezhege.blogspot.com/

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